Anonymous asked:

It baffles me how you could think making Steve Rogers (a paragon of hope and virtue), comics character created by Jews and making him a Nazi is a good idea. People aren't gasping because it's a good "plot twist" people feel physically ill. It's upsetting and offensive how do the writers not care about the way people are reacting?

jordandwhiteqna answered:

Sorry you don’t like it.

But Hydra are not Nazis and were never meant to be. They used Hydra in the Cap movie so as not to have to sully that family movie with Nazi soldiers. But in the comics, they were meant to just be a rival spy organization like SPECTRE.

[sociallyanxiousdragon]

What? I know I’m not the most knowledgeable on comic book lore, but I swear Hydra = Nazi is like… a known thing? With stuff from canon comics to back it up?

[jordandwhiteqna]

Nope. Von Strucker was a Nazi and was head of Hydra for a long time, but he co-opted Hydra from Japan. They were not white supremacists, as they were not all white–they were just “might makes right” style fascists, not tied to race or religion (other than weird alien cult religion stuff).

They premiered in Nick Fury comics from the 60s, as a rival spy agency. It was during the Cold War they debuted in comics, not WWII.

[scifigamingmom]

Ok, but when the general public’s view is Hydra=Nazi, it might be best to not turn Captain Fucking America into one.

[pinkichigo-sama]

I can’t find the GIFs to reply to this post (but i did find the post in question ): The Red Skull, Founder of of Hydra, was a fucking Nazi. It’s cannon, asswipe. So yes, Hydra=Nazis.

[jordandwhite]

Red Skull was not the founder of Hydra. 

You used GIFs from Agents of SHIELD…a show where they reveal that Hydra is a group going back centuries before the ideas of Nazism. 

Of course, we’re talking about the comic Hydra…which also was not founded by the Skull. So…yeah.

[trainsinanime]

I would argue that in the comic in question, Hydra is 100% Nazis and/or a modern equivalent. It’s a merger of right-wing xenophobic populism (e.g. Trump or the various right-wing parties in Europe) with public rallies and everything, together with ISIS style suicide bombings. Ideologically they are all about racism, anti-refugee sentiment, bringing a country to a supposed lost state of glory and doing so by casting out minorities.

The comic hints that there are internal struggles about the direction and especially the methods Hydra is taking. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was more story set in the 1930s, and I imagine that would feature a very standard fascist Hydra. It seems to me like the differences between these various generations of hate, but also their similarities, will be a key focus of what this arc will be about. I’ve read a post somewhere that argued that this comic is really not about Steve being a Nazi (because we all know that is the result of some plot element and won’t and isn’t meant to last), but about how Donald Trump is a Nazi, and I think that’s a very compelling argument.

But for this to make any sense, and for the badly marketed kind of stale surprise twist to make any damn sense, this Hydra here absolutely has to be Nazis. Which they are.

[paulsebert]

Well in the comic in question the solicitations make it obvious that we’re heading towards some sort of bad-guy civil war between Red Skull and Zemo (who is NOT a Nazi).  Zemo to me is a character that works best as an anti-villain (or even a straight-up Anti-Hero in the later Thunderbolts run.) So if it turns out Cap is working deep cover that works just fine to me.  You’ve got the straight up Nazi wing of Hydra fighting off against the Spectre-esc wing of Hydra. So the whole “are Hydra really Nazis” thing plays off on the page.

And if it isn’t undercover well… Red Skull got mind-woogie powers a couple of years ago and could easily have re-written Cap’s memories (all the flashbacks are red-hued.)  Or this could be the case of the cosmic cube or some other comic maguffin altering reality.

All I know is that Spencer’s work on the Sam Wilson Captain America book has been amazing and I find it sad people are actively shunning that book to bitch about this one.

[trainsinanime]

My money’s more on the reality warping side of things than on deep undercover, because of the 1930’s part of the story.

Nick Spencer is great on Sam Wilson Captain America, but I like him even more on Ant-Man and Superior Foes of Spider-Man. And all of those share some aspects that are relevant here. For example reusing and altering existing villains to make points about modern society. Power Broker has become Uber; the Serpent Society is Foxconn; and here, we have this Hydra civil war. (Kind of too bad that AIM isn’t available as an enemy for any of these comics right now; they’d make a great Monsato).